42 – Emily D.P. Young

1: Where do you live Mrs Young?
I live in Salt Lake City.

2: In Salt Lake City in Utah Territory?
Yes sir.

3: Where did you reside before coming here to Salt Lake City??
Well I suppose in Nauvoo, but when we were on our way out here, we of course stopped at different places on the road at the places that we camped.

4: That was when you were on the way out here?
Yes sir. Along you know in different places coming out here we would stop —and sojourn a while. We stopped at Pisgah a while in winter quarters, and came from there here.

5: Well you came from Nauvoo here with, the exception of these places that you stopped at, while en route?
Yes sir.

6: What state was that in?
What, —Nauvoo?

7: Yes ma’am?
Illinois, —Nauvoo was in the state of Illinois.

8: Can you state about what year you moved to Nauvoo, Illinois?
Yes was sir, about the time.

9: Well when was it?
It was in 1839 I think.

10: Well do you mean ’29 or ’39?
Did I not say it was in ’39 I think I said it was in ’39.

11: I thought you said ’29, but perhaps I misunderstood you. Well then you came to Nauvoo in 1839?
Yes sir, I think it was in ’39.

12: How long did you live there?
How long did I live at Nauvoo?

13: Yes?
Well I lived there until 1846. If I mistake a few things, —that is if I make a mistake in figures you must pardon me for I am getting to be pretty old now and I am likely to make mistakes of that kind, but I do not do it on purpose remember, but just because I can’t help it.

14: Were you a member of any church while you lived, at Nauvoo?
Yes sir, I was a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

15: Who was the President of that church?
At the time we moved out do you mean, or out here now?

16: No, at the time you lived at Nauvoo, Illinois, who was the president of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?
Joseph Smith the prophet was the President up to the time of his death.

17: I will ask you to state what you know in regard to the principle of plural marriage, or what is sometimes called polygamy, as to its being taught or practiced in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, before the death of Joseph Smith, at Nauvoo, Illinois?
Do I have to answer the question?

18: Yes, you pay no attention to this objection or any other, only give him time when he starts to make one to say what he has to say, and then you go on and answer the question the same as if he had not said anything?
Why yes, personally I think he taught the doctrine, for he taught it to me with his own lips.

19: Well state the circumstances?
Well he taught it to me himself in Nauvoo.

20: Who did?
Joseph Smith the prophet.

21: State to the reporter the circumstances of the teaching and practice of this principle?
Well I will tell it as near as I can, I was living at his house at the time, and had been living there for quite a while after my father’s death, for he died there in Nauvoo.

22: You were living at whose house?
The prophet’s house, and he came there into the room where I was one day, when I was in the room alone, and asked me if I could keep a secret. I was about eighteen years of age then I think, – at any rate I was quite young. He asked me if I could keep a secret, and I told him I thought I could, and then he told me that he would sometime if he had an opportunity, – he would tell me something that would be for my benefit, if I would not betray him, and I told him I wouldn’t. Well it run along for a good while, – I don’t know just how long, and there was no opportunity of saying anything, to me more than he had, and one day he sat in the room alone, and I passed through it, and he called to me, or spoke to me, and called me to him, and then he said that he had intended to tell me something, but he had no opportunity to do so, and so he would write me a letter, if I would agree to burn it as soon as I read it, and with that I looked frightened, for I thought there was something about it that was not just right, and so I told him that I would rather that he would not write to me, – that I would not write to me any letter, and then he asked me if I wanted him to say any more, and I said yes, that I did not want to hear anything more about it at all, for I had got a little frightened about it. Well it went on in that condition, and there was not anything more said about it for several months not until 1843 I think, – some time in 1843, for he had no other opportunity until then, and I did not think he would ever say anything more about it until then, but I had thought a great deal about it in that time, and I had prayed for it to know what it was, and if it was my duty I thought I ought to have listened to it, – that is to what he was going to tell me or write to me, for I was greatly troubled over it, as I feared I had done wrong in not listening to it, and so I prayed to be enlightened in regard to what I should have done. Well in time I became convinced that there was nothing wrong about it, and that it would be right for me to hear what he had to say, but there was nothing more said for a good while after I came to that conclusion. I think it was months before there was anything more said about it, – but I don’t know just how long it was but he spoke to me again, and wanted an opportunity to speak to me and I granted it.

23: Well go on and finish your answer?
He told me then what he wanted to say to me, and he taught me this principle of plural marriage that is called polygamy, now, but we called it celestial marriage, and he told me that his principle had been revealed to him but it was not generally known; and he went on and said that the Lord had given me to him, and he wanted to know if I would consent to a marriage, and I consented.

24: Well were you married to him?
Yes sir, I was married to him on the 4th day of March 1843, and after that in the same year. I think it was in May, Emma had consented that he should have more wives than one, and as she had consented to this, we were married again I think it was in May, for she had given her consent that we should be married, – that she had chosen myself and my sister, and we were married in her presence again because we thought proper to say nothing about the former marriage, and it was done over again on the 11th of May 1843 in her presence, and she gave her consent fully and freely and voluntarily.

25: Who was present when you were married to Joseph Smith the first time?
The first time who was present?

26: The first time that you were married to Joseph Smith?
Well Heber C. Kimball was present, and I have forgotten whether his wife was prenet or not. I remember seeing her there in the room but I could not say as to whether she was present just at the time we were married or not. Now that is the first time you mean?

27: Yes ma’am?
Yes sir hew as present, but I don’t know whether his wife was or was not.

28: When you say “he was present”, you mean that it was Heber C. Kimball that was present?
Yes sir.

29: Well who was present the second time?
The second time we were married Emma Smith was present, and my sister Eliza, and I do not remember anyone else who was present except James Adams who performed the ceremony.

30: Can you state why it was that two ceremonies were performed?
Yes sir, I told you,

31: What was the reason the ceremony was performed the second time?
Well Emma had a good many feelings we supposed, – she was a rather high strung woman of a very nervous organization, and we thought that she had her feelings, and so we thought there was no use in saying anything about it, for so long as she had chosen us herself, – there was no use of having another ceremony only for that reason. That is the only reason I know for not saying anything about it.

32: Who was this Emma Smith that you refer to that was present?
Who was she?

33: Yes ma’am?
She was Joseph Smith’s first wife.

34: State to the reporter whether or not you ever witnessed any one married as a first wife, – I mean as a plural wife, to any one there in Nauvoo?
Yes sir.

35: Do you say you have?
Yes sir.

36: Who was it?
 

37: Who was it?
Orson Hyde. I saw him married to one of his pluran wives, and I know which one it was too, for her name was Mary Ann Price, – Now I think that was the name of the lady he married at that time, but I would not be positive about it, – I would not be positive that was her name for I was not acquainted with her.

38: Was any one else married to Joseph Smith at the time you were married to him?
Yes sir.

39: State to the reporter who it was?
My sister Eliza was married to him at the same time I was and Emma Smith was present.

40: You were both married to him at the same time in the presence of his first wife Emma Smith?
Yes sir, and with her consent.

41: State to the reporter what you know in regard to a revelation being given on this principle of plural marriage before the death of Joseph Smith?
Well there was a revelation given, – printed after I was married to him, but this revelation that was given before that was not printed or generally known, but there was one printed soon after that, that I know of.

42: Do you mean that it was printed or written?
I don’t know what time it was printed for sure, but it was printed since I was married to him, but I don’t know what time it was printed, nor do I know the date that it was written, but I know that after we were married there was one given that was made more public.

43: How do you know that there was any revelation at all?
Do you mean after this?

44: I mean at any time?
Well he told me himself that he had had a revelation.
Joseph Smith told me that the angel had appeared to him and had given him that revelation.

45: What Joseph Smith do you refer to there?
Joseph Smith the prophet told me that.

46: That is all? Cross examination by P.P. Kelley,-
 

47: You were born in 1822 or 1824?
In ’24 it was.

48: In 1824 you were born?
yes sir.

49: And you were baptized into the church when you were eight years old at Independence, Missouri?
Well I can’t say. I might have been a little over eight years old, for I don’t remember the date that I was baptized, but I was baptized in Missouri I know that.

50: You were baptized in Jackson County, Missouri?
Yes sir.

51: By whom were you baptized?
I think it was by John Corrill-I think his name is spelled C o r r i l l.

52: Then you went to Independence about the time that you were seven years old?
Well I think it was in ’31 that we went there, and I might have been a little over seven.

53: And you were baptized in ’32 in Independence?
I don’t now the date, but it was before we left there, although I don’t know the date.

54: You in writing your own history give it as being baptized when you were eight years old, didn’t you do that?
Well I don’t know when it was that I was baptized, -I don’t remember the date, but that is as I remember it.

55: Did you write your history yourself, as published in the historical record?
Yes sir I did.

56: Did you write it yourself, or did some body write it for you?
I wrote it myself.

57: Have you ever seen it since it was printed?
Yes sir I have seen it in the record.

58: You wrote it yourself, as you have seen it there in the record?
Yes sir, that is as I remember it.

59: And you went from Jackson County to Clay county?
Yes sir.

60: To Far West?
No sir, for Far West is not or was not in Clay county.

61: What county is it in?
It was about three miles from Liberty that was the place where we stopped was about three miles from Liberty.

62: About three miles from Liberty?
Yes sir.

63: That is in Clay County?
Yes sir, Liberty is in Clay County.

64: Well you left Clay County did you not?
Yes sir.

65: Where did you go when you left Clay County?
We went to Caldwell County then. I don’t know that it was Caldwell County the, but it was afterwards called Caldwell County.

66: That was the county that Far West was in?
Yes sir, and the saints built up Far West after they went there. -There was on Far West there before the Saints went there, but they built it up after they got there.

67: And you left there in 1839?
I think it was in ’39, but I aint positive as to that.

68: And you left there in March or April?
I remember that we left there in Cold weather, but I could not say what month it was in.

69: Were you at the conference held in 1838 in Far West?
I can’t say.

70: Well what is your best recollection as to that?
I can’t say that I was sir. I don’t remember that I was.

71: You don’t remember that you were at that conference
No sir. I presume there was a conference that year as there was ever year, but I don’t recollect being there.

72: Well you went from Far West to what place?
To Quincy.

73: Quincy, Illinois?
Yes sir.

74: How long did you stay there?
I don’t know.

75: Do you know what time in the year you got there?
No sir, I don’t know what time in the year it was, further than I remember it was in cold weather, but the month I do not remember.

76: Well you did not remain at Quincy?
No sir.

77: You went from Quincy to what place?
We went down to Pittsfield in Pike County and stopped a while there. That was in Illinois.

78: Do you remember the time you were in Pittsfield?
No sir, I don’t remember the dates, or the year.

79: Do you remember the month
No sir.

80: You can’t remember that?
No sir.

81: Do you know where you want from Pittsfield?
Yes sir, we went to Commerce, afterwards Nauvoo.

82: Well what time did you get there?
I can’t remember that either.

83: Cannot you remember the year?
No sir, I am not positive. I think – it was about ’39, but I am not positive as to that el ther. I can’t remember the year it has been so long ago.

84: Well did you get to Nauvoo in 1839, is that not what you said?
I think so, but I would not be positive.

85: Well do you say it was not in ’40 that you got there
My father died in ’40 and I think it was the year before we got there, – that is the we got there the year before that, and I think that it was in ’39, but I am not positive.

86: You were sixteen years old when your father died?
Well I think I was about that age. I suppose that was about my age.

87: Well if you were born in ’24, and your father died in ’40, that would make you sixteen years old when he died?
Yes sir.

88: Now your father was one of the first officers of the church, and the presiding Bishop of the church?
Yes sir. He was the first Bishop in the church.

89: Well was not he the presiding Bishop?
Yes sir. There was no other Bishop when he was first ordained, and I don’t know whether he would be called the first Bishop or not.

90: You heard him preach occasionally did you not?
Heard who preach?

91: Your father?
Yes sir.

92: You have heard him preach a great many times haven’t you?
I presume I have.

93: And you have heard him preach in private too?
Yes sir, sometimes I did.

94: You were a member of the church from 1833 or ’33 the time you were baptized, up to the time that your father died?
Yes sir.

95: From the time that you were eight or nine years old, you were a member of the same church that your father belonged to up to the time that he died were you not
Yes sir.

96: And so was your sister?
Yes sir.

97: And so was your mother?
Yes sir.

98: Di you ever hear your father teach or preach either in public or private the practice of polygamy?
No sir, for it was not known, – it was not generally known in his day.

99: You say it was not generally know in his day?
No sir.

100: Well was it known at all in his day?
I presume it was.

101: Well do you know whether it was or was not?
I knew nothing about it then at all.

102: You knew nothing about it at that time?
NO sir not at the time of the death of my father.

103: You never heard anything about it during the life time of your father did you?
I never heard any thing at all about it during the life time of my father as I have told you, for it was long after that that Joseph Smith divulged it to me.

104: Did your father have more wives than one?
No sir. He never had but one wife.

105: Did you ever see your father marry any body?
My father marry any body?

106: Yes ma’am.
I don’t remember that I ever did?

107: I mean did you ever hear him perform the ceremony of marriage or see him do that?
I can’t remember that I ever did.

108: And you are certain that you never heard him preach polygamy, or teach it in any way?
Yes sir I am certain that I never heard him teach or preach polygamy in any way at all.

109: And your father died so far as you know without believing in the doctrine of polygamy?
Yes sir.

110: And without knowing anything about it so far as your knowledge extends?
Yes sir. He did not know anything about it that I know of.

111: And he died on the 16th of May, or was it the 26th of May 1840?
Well it was about the 16th of May 1840 that he died. I ain’t sure whether it was the 16th or the 15th, but it was either one of these dates or pretty near there, and it was in May and in 1840 I am pretty sure of that.

112: now where did your mother live after your father’s death?
She lived in Nauvoo until we moved away, – or until we were driven out.

113: She continued to live there in Nauvoo?
Yes sir.

114: Who lived with your mother?
My two younger sisters and a brother.

115: Where did you live?
I lived at the prophet Joseph’s house.

116: how long was it after your father died before you went there to live?
I don’t remember how long it was.

117: Well was it a month or two months?
Well it might have been a month or two months or even three months or more, – I can’t say as to how long it was, but it was not very long I think after fathers death before I went there to live.

118: Can’t you tell within a month or two how long it was?
No sir, for I don’t remember it.

119: Well it was in 1840 some time that you went there to live with Joseph Smith, wasn’t it?
No sir I don’t think it was in 1840.

120: Well your father died in May 1840, and you say it was not probably more than two or three months that you went there to live after your fathers death?
No sir I did not say that, – I know I went there to live after father died, but I said I could not remember when it was.

121: Now was it not as late as 1842 that you went there to live with Joseph Smith?
Well I don’t know but what it was. I don’t remember the dates very well, and it might have been in 1842 before I went there.

122: Well I would like to have your best recollection as to that, – that is as to the date you went to live at Joseph house with reference to the time that your father died?
Well I think it was in 1841 that I went there, but I don’t know and so I can’t be positive, but I think it was in 1841.

123: You are not willing to swear that it was in 1841 or 1842 either, are you?
No sir I am not willing to swear as to any date, because I have no recollection as to any date, or when it was.

124: You mean to say you have no recollection as to any date with reference to the time that you went to live at Joseph Smith’s?
All I know is that it was some time after my fathers death, – it seems to me that it was some short time after his death, but I can’t say as to what the date was.

125: Well was it a year and a half after your father’s death?
No I don’t think it was as long as a year and a half after fathers death, but still I would not say it was not.

126: Did you go there as a house servant to work in the house?
No sir, I went there as a nurse girl, for they had a young baby and they wanted me to tend it for them That is what I delighted in, – tending babies, and that is what they got me there to do more particularly, for I had to do something for we were very poor, and the elder ones of us had to do something for a living.

127: Did you receive wages while you were living there?
No sir, I never received any wages, but while I was there I just lived as one of the family.

128: You received your clothing and board didn’t you?
Yes sir and went to school some while I was there.

129: Now what was the date when he first mentioned this subject to you about polygamy?
Well now I could not say. I could not give you the date.

130: Well can you tell the year?
No sir.

131: You say not that you cannot even tell the year?
I can’t do it positively.

132: Well how long was it after you went there to work as a nurse girl that he first spoke to you about it? Give the time exactly if you can, and if you can not do that approximate it as near as you can?
Well sir I could not tell you that either.

133: Well was it a year?
I can’t say.

134: Well what is your best impression as to that?
I don’t think it was a year, but it might have been.

135: You say it might have been a year?
Yes sir, but I don’t think it was quite a year.

136: Did he say anything about polygamy the first time that he mentioned this matter to you?
Well what do you mean, – I don’t understand.

137: Did he mention polygamy the first time he spoke to you about it?
No sir.

138: The first time he spoke to you he said he had something to tell you if you could keep it?
Yes sir, but he did not tell me what it was then. He just said he he had something he would tell me if I could keep the secret or something like that.

139: Now how long after that was it before you had the conversation with him, in which he said that he would write you a letter?
I really don’t remember how long that was after we had the first conversation, but it was not a great while as time goes I think.

140: Well about how long was it?
Well I don’t remember.

141: Well was it a month or two months or three months?
Well it might had been two or three months or even longer than that, but I would not say positively.

142: What is your best recollection or impression about that?
I don’t think it was as long as that.

143: Is it your best recollection then that it was a about a month?
Yes sir, that is about the length of time I think it was, but I could not be positive even as to that.

144: You think it was about a month after the time that he asked you if you could keep a secret, that he spoke to you again and told you that he had something to tell you but as opportunity was lacking he would write you a letter, provided you would agree to destroy it immediately after reading it?
Yes sir, I think it was about that length of time.

145: Now was that in the year 1841 or 1842?
I think it must have been in 1842 I think, but I can’t say positively, – it must have been in 1842 I thing.

146: Well it is your best recollection that it was in 1842?
Yes sir. That is my recollection.

147: Well now what was his manner at that time, – on both of these occasions when he spoke to you, the first and the second time, what was his manner?
Well I don’t know what you want me to say”.

148: Well did he lay his hand on your shoulder?
No sir.

149: Did he have his arm around you?
No sir.

150: He did not put his arm around you?
No sir, – nothing or the kind. He just said what he had to say, and did not touch me, for he was getting ready to go out same place.

151: Was he in the habit of putting his arm around you?
No sir.

152: He was not in the habit of doing that?
No sir, never, he was a gentleman.

153: He never did put his arm around you?
No sir he never did for he was not that kind of a man, – he was a gentleman in every way, and did not indylge in liberties like that.

154: You never saw anything unbecoming in him?
Never in my life.

155: Now after you had the conversation with him about his writing the letter to you, how long was it after that time before you had an opportunity to accomplish another conversation with him?
How long was it before he spoke to me about it again?

156: Yes sir, how long did you ever the subject under consideration as a mawtter for consideration, and a subject for you prayerful attention?
I wish you would ask that question over again, for I don’t understand it.

157: I say how long after you had the conversation with him about the matter, at the time he said he would write a letter to you, and you told him you would prefer that he did not do that, – how long did you have the matter under consideration as a matter or subject of prayer, before he spoke to you again about it?
Well I don’t know how long it was. It might have been three or four months, for I really cannot say how long it was.

158: It was still in 1842 was it when you had the next conversation with him?
I believe it was.

159: You believe it was?
Yes sir, I think so, but I could not be positive as to that.

160: Well are you pretty certain about it?
Yes sir, I feel pretty certain about it, but still I could not swear to it positively.

161: Well it is your best recollection that all this occured in 1842 is it not?
Yes sir that is my best recollection. I think that was the time that he spoke to me about th eletter that you have referred to.

162: And was that not the time that these other conversations that you have mentioned occured also, it is your besst recollection that they all occured in 1842?
Yes sir, that is I know the time that he wrote to me about that letter, or spoke to me about writing the letter was in 1842, but the next time he spoke to me after that was in 1843.

162: The conversation was in 1843?
Yes sir.

163: Well I mean the time that he spoke to you about writing the letter, that was in 1842?
Yes sir.

164: Well when was the next conversation after that?
That was in 1843 I think.

165: The next conversation after the time that the writing of the letter was mentioned was in 1843 you say?
Yes sir, I think so.

166: Well I would like you to be as positive as you can about that?
Well I am pretty sure it was in 1843.

167: What time in 1843?
In Match some time.

168: In Match some time, what time in March?
Between the first and the fourth I think.

169: That was between the first and the fourth of March?
Yes sir. I think so.

170: Where were you when you had that conversation?
I was at the house of Heber C. Kimball.

171: Were you living at Heber C. Kimball’s then?
No sir I was not living there then, I was living at Joseph Smith’s.

172: But you were stopping at Heber C. Kimball’s for a few days?
No sir.

173: Well what wsa the occasion of your being there?
Well I just went in there as I would in to any of the neighbours houses.

174: Was Joseph Smith there at the time you went in?
No sir.

175: Joseph Smith came there after you got there?
Yes sir.

176: Then Joseph was there?
Yes sir, Joseph Smith was present.

177: Who else was present besides Joseph C. Smith?
Heber C. Kimball was present.

178: Was there any body else present?
I don’t know whether his wife was present or not at the time. Well I will say that I don’t know who was present when we were talking there together. I don’t think though that at that time there was any body present, for I think we were alone.

179: You were alone together?
Yes sir.

180: You and Joseph Smith?
Yes sir.

181: And you are pretty certain that was March 1843?
Yes sir.

182: Did he offer to take your hand then?
No sir.

183: Or pur his hand around you?
No sir.

184: He never did any such a thing as that?
No sir.

185: At any time or place?
No sir, not before we were married.

186: Now did he tell you there about the principle of sealing?
Yes sir.

187: He did?
Yes sir.

188: He told you all about the doctrine or principle of sealing?
Yes sir.

189: Was it sealing for eternity?
Yes sir, time and eternity.

190: Was it for time and eternity both?
Yes sir.

191: And that you swear to positively?
Yes sir.

192: How do you know it was for time?
Because that was in the ceremony, and he said it was for time and eternity both. and it was in the ceremony too.

193: Was there any ceremony there at that time?
Yessir

194: At the time he was talking to you, was there a ceremony said?
No sir, not at that time, but there was afterwards..

195: Well now did he say, did he teach you the you there, that it was sealing for time and eternity?
Yes sir.

196: He did?
Yes sir.

197: Do you swear to that positively?
Yes sir.

198: What were the words he used, -what was it he said in telling you that?
Well I can’t remember the exact words that he said now, -I can’t remember the exact words that he said.

199: Can’t you recollect any of them?
Not so to tell them correctly as he said them. -I don’t think I can do that.

200: You don’t think you can repeat what he said to you there?
No sir, but I know the substance of it. -I remember that very well.

201: Well now from from the first time he spoke to you about that,- from the first time that he mentioned it to you up to this time that you are speaking of now it had been about two and a half years?
No sir.

202: It was not that long?
No sir I don’t think it was that long.

203: Did you not say it was a long long time?
No sir.

204: Well was it a year and a half?
It might have been year and a half from the time when he first spoke to-me up to the time that I married him, but I don’t think it was that long either.

205: From the time he came to you and told you that he had something to tell you if you could keep it,- a secret to tell you if you could keep it, and promise not to give it away,- from that time up to the time that you were married to him, was about a year and a half was it?
I did not say that it was, for I don’t know that it was.

206: Well what is your best judgement as to that?
I think it was about a year, for I don’t think it was a year and a half,- it might have been year or even less than that.

207: Your best judgement is that it was about a year and a half from the time that he first spoke to you about it, until the time when you married him?
No sir I did not say that.- I said I thought it was about a year, or less than a year. I cannot be positive as to that, but I think that is about right.

208: Now if that is correct the time that he first spoke to you would bring that first conversation in March 1842.- if that was about a year before you were married that he first spoke to you?
It might have been that, and it might have been later than that.

209: And he said then in 1842 when he first spoke to you that he had a revelation?
Yes sir.

210: And told you what it was?
Yes sir, he told me about it.

211: He told you what it was?
Yes sir, he told me what it was.

212: At the first conversation?
No, no,- not at the first conversation.

213: Well that is what I am asking you about.
Well I did not understand you for he did not tell me anything about it then.

214: But you knew about it at the first conversation did you not?
 
No sir, not at the first conversation.

215: he told you that he had something to tell you if you could keep it, and would not give it away?
Yes sir that is in effect what he told me, but he did not tell me at that time what it was, and I had no idea what it was either at that time.

216: And you found out afterwards that it was a revelation on sealing?
No sir.

217: You did not?
No sir I didn’t find out anything about it not until he told me himself what it was.

218: Well you found it out afterwards from him?
Yes sir, but before he told me about it himself there was reports around that made me think, that gave me an idea of what it was he wanted to say to me but I did not know what it was about, or had no idea of what it was he wanted to speak to me about any more than that I had heard, which gave me a suspicion of what it was.

219: You say you heard reports or rumors which gave you an idea of what it was he wished to speak to you about?
Yes sir.

220: Now do you hear these reports between the time he first spoke to you and the time that he actually told you what it was he had to say to you?
Yes sir.

221: Did you hear them between the time that he first spoke to you and the time that he spoke to you about writing the letter?
Well you see I can’t tell you so much about that because I don’t know the time that he spoke to me or the length of time between the different times that he spoke to me, but there was so many reports flying around there in Nauvoo, that I did not pay much attention to it until he spoke to me about it, and then I found out that the reports that I had heard were connected with what he had to tell me. I did not think much about it until he told me himself.

222: Now at the time you had this last conversation you had seen the revelation then?
No sir.

223: You had not at the time you were married?
No sir.

224: Did you not say awhile ago that you had seen it then?
No sir.

225: How did you come to marry him without seeing it?
Well he told me it was all right and I just took his word for it.

226: Well did you go and get married without ever knowing it was the law of the church?
I got married on his own teachings, – he was the prophet of the church and he told me it was all right and I took his word for it.

227: You took his word for it and got married to him in that way on his own teachings?
Yes sir, and on my own convictions, for I believed it was all right or he would not have taught me and told me what he did.

228: Now did he teach you that a man can have more women than one?
Yes sir.

229: As wives?
Yes sir.

230: Well what words did he use in making this statement to you?
I told you that I did not remember.

231: Well did he say that they should be sealed to him for time and eternity, or was it for time?
For time and eternity.

232: For time and eternity both?
Yes sir.

233: That is what he told you?
Yes sir.

234: Did you ever hear the doctrine of plural marriage taught publicly before you were married to him?
No sir.

235: Had you ever heard of its being taught or having been taught in the church prior to the time that you were married to him?
No sir I never heard anything only what he told me.

236: Well had you ever heard any officer in the church teach it outside of what Joseph Smith told you?
Up to that time?

237: Yes ma’am?
No sir I had never heard anything only what he had told me.

238: Up to that time you had not heard anything only that he had told you?
I had never heard any thing definite about it at all from any one up to the time that he married me, only what he had told me himself.

239: Now did you ever at any time either before or after he married you, teach it to the members of the church, either publicly or privately?
No sir, I never did, – not to say publicly.

240: I said wither privately or publicly?
Well, sir, I never did.

241: Neither before or after that time?
No sir.

242: What time in the day were you married?
I am not sure but I think it was in the afternoon.

243: What time?
Do you mean the last time?

244: No, I mean the first time that you were married to Joseph Smith?
I can’t say, – yes I can too, it was in the evening.

245: After supper?
Yes sir.

246: And the second time what time was it?
It was in the afternoon I think.

247: Whose house were you married at the first time?
Heber C. Kimballs.

248: Whose house the last time?
Joseph Smith’s own house.

249: You refer now to the time that you were married to Joseph Smith, – the two times that you were married to him?
Yes sir.

250: You were married the first time to him at Heber C. Kimball’s house in the evening after supper, and the next time you were married to him at his own house in the afternoon?
Yes sir.

251: Now you are certain that it was in the afternoon that you were married to him the second time?
No sir I am not positively certain about it, but I think it was, – well now I would not be at all certain about that.

252: Well was it in the night, – was it at night?
No sir.

253: Was it in the morning?
No sir, – it was not very early in the morning.

254: Well was it in the afternoon or in the forenoon?
It might have been in the forenoon, – I can’t remember whether it was in the forenoon or in the afternoon.

255: Well it might have been at night might it not?
No sir, it was not at night, – I know that well enough, but I don’t remember whether it was in the forenoon or afternoon. I thought at first that it was in the afternoon, but I don’t remember when it was.

256: Who were present when you were married the second time?
My sister Eliza and Emma Smith and James Adams.

257: Who was James Adams?
Well he was a Mormon that was a judge and we used to call him Judge Adams, and his home was I think in Springfield, Illinois, but he was up there at that time on business I think. I don’t think that he ever resided at Nauvoo, but I am not positive as to that either, but I rather think that he never did reside at Nauvoo.

258: Was he an elder in the church?
Yes sir, he was an elder in the church. If he had not been he could not have performed the ceremony.

235: Had you ever heard of its being taught or having been taught in the church prior to the time that you were married to him?
No sir I never heard anything old what he told me.

236: Well had you ever heard any officer in the church teach it outside of what Joseph Smith told you?
Up to that time?

237: Yes ma’am.
No sir. I had never heard anything only what he had told me.

238: Up to that time you had not heard anything only what he had told you?
I have never heard any thing definite about it at all from any one up to the time that he married me, only what he had told me himself.

239: Now did you ever at any time either before or after he married you, teach it to the members of the church, either publicly or privately?
No sir. I never did, not so say publicly.

240: I said either privately or publicly?
Well, no, I never did.

241: Neither before or after that time?
No sir.

242: What time in the day were you married?
Well I am not sure but I think it was in the afternoon.

243: What time?
Do you mean the last time?

244: No, I mean the first time that you were married to Joseph Smith?
I can’t say, yes I can too, it was in the evening.

245: After supper?
Yes sir.

246: And the second time what time was it?
It as in the afternoon I think.

247: Whose house were you married at the first time?
Heber C. Kimballs.

248: Whose house the last time?
Joseph Smith’s own house.

249: You refer now to the time that you were married to Joseph Smith, the two times that you were married to him?
Yes sir.

250: You were married the first time to him at Heber C. Kimball’s house in the evening after supper, and the next time you were married to him at his own house in the afternoon?
Yes sir.

251: Now you are certain that it was in the afternoon that you were married to him the second time?
No sir I am not positively certain about it, but I think it was, well now I would not be at all certain about that.
No sir.

253: was it in the morning?
No sir, it was not very early in the morning.

254: Well was it in the afternoon or in the forenoon?
It might have been in the forenoon, I can’t remember whether it was in the forenoon or in the afternoon.

255: Well it might have been at night might it now?
No sir, it was not at night. I know that well enough, but I don’t remember whether it was in the forenoon or afternoon. I thought at first that it was in the afternoon, but I don’t remember when it was.

256: Who were present when you were married the second time?
My sister Eliza and Emma Smith and James Adams.

257: Who was James Adams?
Well he was a Mormon that was a judge and we used to call him Judge Adams, and his home was I think in Springfield, Illinois, but he was up there at that time on business I think. I don’t think that he ever resided at Nauvoo, but I am not positive as to that either, but I rather think that he never did reside at Nauvoo.

258: Was he an elder in the church?
Yes sir, he was en elder in the church. If he had not been he could not have performed the ceremony.

259: Was he an elder in the church?
Yes sir he was an elder in the church. If he had not been he could not have performed the marriage ceremony.

260: Is he the man who married you the second time you were married?
Yes sir.

261: What heremony did he use?
The regular ceremony.

262: Was it the one that was prescribed in the book of Doctrine and Covenants?
Yes sir. I think so, but I am not positive as to what the words were.

263: Well what is your best recollection as to the ceremony?
I can’t say positively what it was.

264: Well it is your best recollection that it was the ceremony prescribed in the book of Doctrine and Covenants that he used in the performance of that ceremony?
Yes sir, I rather think it was but I could not say positively.

265: Did he have a book of Doctrine and Covenants in his hand when he married you?
No sir, I don’t think he did, but I am not sure about that.

266: Did Kimball have a book of Doctrine and Covenants of any kind in his hand when he married you the second (???) time?
No sir I think not.

267: Well, were you married by the same ceremony both times?
I can’t say, for I don’t remember.

268: You say that you do not remember what the ceremony that you were married by, was?
No sir, I don’t recollect it.

269: And you cannot even say whether the same ceremony was used both times or was not?
No sir.

270: Well what is your best recollection as to that?
Well all the recollection that I have is that they were both very much the same.

271: Well was it substantially the same?
Well I could not say that it was owrd for word the same, but it was very much the same I think.

272: Well substantially it was the same?
Yes sir.

273: Well when you were married to Brigham Young was the ceremony that was used then substantially the same?
No sir. It was not exactly the same.

274: There was a change in the ceremony when you were married to Brigham Young?
In some respects there was.

275: What were the changes?
I can’t tell you what they were for I don’t know.

276: When were you married to Brigham Young?
I don’t remember the date.

277: Was it in 1846?
No sir. It was in the fall of 1844 I think.

278: That was the year that Joseph Smith died?
Yes sir.

279: Then you were married to Brigham Young in the fall of the same year that Joseph Smith died?
Yes sir.

280: Can you give the date of that marriage?
No sir, I cannot.

281: Can you give the month in which you were married to Brigham Young?
No sir, I cannot even give you the month.

282: Can you come within two months of the time that you were married to Brigham Young?
I can’t say. I think it was in November, but I would not be positive of that.

283: You say you think it was in November?
Yes sir.

284: That you were married to Brigham Young?
Yes sir, but I could not be positive, – that is merely a guess so to speak.

285: In November 1844 was the time you think that you were married
 

286: You were married in the temple to Brigham Young?
No sir.

287: Why not,-why were you not married in the temple?
Well sir I was not married in the temple for the reason that the temple was not built at that time, and that was the reason we were not married in it. It was in process of erection but had not been finished so that it could be done in it.

288: What is that?
I say the temple was not built at that time.

289: It was not built at that time?
It was not finished at that time.

290: Now you can remember the date that you were married to Joseph Smith the first time and the second time can’t you?
I can remember it pretty well, but the last time I cannot remember it so well,-well yes I am pretty positive that I can remember it, but I haven’t it set down. I have no record of it is what I mean to say.

291: You don’t get these dates from any record that you put in this biography of yours?
They are there as I remember them.

292: You did not go to the records to find them?
No sir.

293: Well you recollect the date that you married Joseph Smith,-You recollect that all right?
Yes sir.

294: Well you never had children by Joseph Smith?
No sir.

295: Still you can remember the dates that you married him?
Yes sir.

296: And you cannot recollect the dates that you married Brigham Young,-the date that you married Brigham Young, although you have had children by Brigham Young?
Well I supposed it was all down on the record, and I did not suppose it was necessary for me to remember it, and I have forgotten the date that I married him now so that I can’t be positive about it at all.

297: Now you say that you and your sister were both married to Joseph Smith on the 11 day of May 1843?
Yes sir.

298: Was it in the forenoon or the afternoon?
I have told you I could not say positively.

299: How can recollect you were married that day, unless you can remember the time of the day that you were married?
Well it would be hard for me to rememer all the circumstances of this matter,-I might not remember that because I did not charge my memory with it, while I might remember the date as I did, because I charged my memory with it. That is a fact that we cannot very well forget you know.

300: You don’t forget that your sister was married with you at the same time?
No sir.

301: What was her name?
Eliza.

302: Eliza Partridge?
Yes sir.

303: You don’t forget that she was married with you, and you do not forget the day?
No sir.

304: But you can’t recollect or remember whether it was in the forenoon or after noon that you were married.
No sir.

305: Or whether it was at night?
Yes sir, I remember that it was in the day time.

306: was it not early in the morning that you were married that second time?
No sir, not so very early in the morning.

307: Was it in the forenoon?
Perhaps so, and perhaps not.

308: And you are certain that Emma was present?
Emma was present,-yes sir.

309: Who roomed with Joseph Smith that night?
That day

310: Who roomed with Joseph Smith that night, the night of the day the 11th of May 1843 when you say you and your sister were married to Joseph Smith?
Well I don’t want to answer that question?

311: Well answer it if you can, if you know?
Well it was myself.

312: Now you have answered it, and that will do?
 

313: You roomed with Joseph Smith that night?
Yes sir.

314: Where was Emma?
She was in her room I suppose. I don’t know where she was but that is where I supposed she was.

315: Was she there?
I supposed she was there in her room.

316: Was she there at the house?
Yes sir.

317: You know she was there at the house?
Yes sir. Well I think she was, but I don’t know it. I have no reason to think she was any where else than there at the house.

318: Well do you know whether she was or not?
Well I don’t know positively whether she was or not, but I have every reason to believe she was there.

319: Are you willing to swear that she was in the city of Nauvoo at all?
Yes sir, she was in the city of Nauvoo.

320: You are positive that she was in the city of Nauvoo?
Do you mean that night.

321: I mean the day that you claim that you and your sister were married to Joseph Smith at any other time that day or night, or the day before?
Yes sir she was there, and if she went away I know nothing about it at all.

322: She was there that night, you recollect that refinitely?
I don’t remember particularly of seeing her, but I have every reason to think that she was there.

323: Are you willing to swear that she was there?
No sir, I am not willing to swear that she was there.

324: Are you willing to swear that she was there that night?
No sir.

325: Then you are not willing to swear that she was there that night?
No sir. I could not swear positively that she was there that night.

326: Are you willing to swear that she was there that day at all?
Yes sir, I am willing to swear that she was there that day.

327: In the afternoon?
Yes sir she was there in the afternoon. She was there all day, and if she went away it was after night, and I have no reason at all to think or believe that she went away at all.

328: She was there at the time of your marriage and your sisters marriage to Joseph, her husband, and consented to that marriage?
Yes sir.

329: Now to refresh your recollection Mrs. Young I will read from page two hundred and twenty six in the historical record from an affidavit of William Clayton, did you know William Clayton?
Yes sir.

330: That is the biography you wrote yourself, is it not Mrs. Young (handing witness book)?
Well I can’t see it. I will have to get my glasses, shall I read it?

331: Yes you can look it over and see if it is your
 
Yes sir I think it is.

332: You need not read it aloud? (after reading or looking over the part of the book pointed out to the witness, witness answers)
Well this says I was about eight years of age when I was baptized, and it says May 27th as the date when my father died, but I think that must be a mistake, is it not?
Well the Times and Season gives the same date Mrs Young?
Then that must be right.

334: Do you recognize that as the statement you made?
Yes sir, as far as I have read it is?

335: What book is it found in?
Well it is the historical record I guess it is correct.

336: Did you write all that record there?
I wrote all of it regarding myself.

337: You wrote all of it so far as it refers to yourself?
Yes sir I think so.

338: Now you say that Emma Smith consented her own free will and agreed to you and your sister marrying Joseph?
Yes sir I think so.

339: Well did she?
So far as I know she did.

340: Well you have stated that she did, – you have stated positively haven’t you that she did?
Well I think she did. She was there and saw it. And I expect she would not have been there is she had not consented to it.

341: Well did she consent to your knowledge?
Yes sir she did.

342: Well what did she say?
I don’t remember the words she said.

343: Did she say anything at all in your presence?
In what way?

344: By way of giving her consent?
Yes sir she consented to it in my presence.

345: Well do you recollect anything that she said about it? If she consented in your presence you ought to remember something that she said?
No sir I don’t recollect the words.

346: Let me refresh your recollection by reading from page two hundred and twenty six from the affidavit of William Clayton in the same book, – “Hyrum then took the revelation to read to Emma. Joseph remained in the office with me until Hyrum returned. When he came back Joseph asked him how he had succeeded, and Hyrum replied that he had never received a more severe talking to in his life; that Emma was very bitter and full of dissapointment and anger, and Joseph quietly remarked” I told you, you did not know Emma as well as I did”, Joseph then put the revelation in his pocket, and they both left and office”. Now that affidavit was made in July 1843, and that affidavit of Clayton’s states that that attention to in regard to what transpired there occured in July 1843 more than two or three months after the times you say you were married in May? Is that not a fact?
That is all right. That occured after our marriage – for she was very bitter over it after the marriage but she consented to it at the time. I said before that she was bitter after that, and if I did not I meant to say so, and I think I did.

347: She turned bitter then from the minute you were married?
Yes sir in a short time after we were married she did.

348: Is that what you say in your affidavit?
That is not an affidavit of mine. I made no affidavit about anything there.

349: Well it is in your biography here?
Say what?

350: That she turned butter from the minute that you were married?
Well I might have said that, but I meant from a short time after we were married. It might have been from the hour we were married. I know she was bitter soon after that, but I can’t say how long it was afterwards that she got that way, but I know it was very soon after that.

351: Well about what time did she turn bitter?
Well after the next day you might say that she was bitter.

352: Now you say that you wrote this biography yourself?
Yes sir.

353: And you used this language in it, “From that very hour (meaning the hour when you were married) Emma was our butter enemy”. What do you mean by that?
Well that is not an affidavit.

354: Well, it is a statement prepared by you and purporting to be published as the truth is not?
Yes sir.

355: Well is that the truth?
Well I say I think she did turn against us. I did not make any affidavit that is was true though.

356: You did not make any affidavit that Emma was there at all?
Yes sir.

357: Well would you make an affidavit that she was there at all?
Yes sir.

358: You would?
Yes sir, I would, for I know she was there. She was there, and she gave her consent freely and voluntarily.

359: And then she went back on you that very hour, or very soon thereafter?
Yes sir.

360: And you left the house right away?
No sir, not right away, we did not leave the house for several months after that.

361: You still, all the time you remained there in the house at night you occupied the same room with Joseph Smith?
No sir.

362: Is that not what you stated a while ago?
No sir.

363: Well did you occupy the same room with him at nights after that?
No sir, never after that. She turned against us after that.

364: Did you have any children by Joseph Smith?
No sir.

365: What day of the week was it you were married on?
I can’t tell you.

366: Well give us the best of your recollection on that?
I can’t remember what day of the week it was.

367: You don’t recollect what time it was with reference to the day of the week?
No sir.

368: The Millennial Star was your church paper here in Utah at one time?
Yes sir, I believe it was.

369: Now to refresh your recollection again I will read from the Millennial Star on page seventy five from the history of Joseph Smith, as printed by President Brigham Young.
 

370: Is that the Millennial Star (handing witness a book)?
Yes sir.

371: What year was it published in?
Well I can’t see the date without my glasses, and so you will let me get my glasses on before I can tell you.

372: Well can you tell what the date is now?
It was published so this says on Saturday January 1st 1859, – that is what that says.

373: Now I will read from it from page 75, – this is the Millenial Star, which the witness has identified, – Thursday May 11th 1843, – it is as follows, – ? Thursday the 11th day of May 1843, – at six A.M., baptized Louisa Beeman, Sarah Alley and others. At 8 A.M. Went to see a new carriage made by Thomas Moore, which was ready for travel. Emma went to Quincy in new carriage. I rode out as far as Prairie. 10 A.M., B. Young, Geo A. Smith, John Taylor and W. Richards assembled in council and voted that Addison Pratt, Noah Rogers, Benjamin F. Gronard, Knowson F. Hanks, go on a mission to the Pacific isles. Captain Dan Jones prepared himself to take a mission to Wales; James Sloan to go to Ireland; Reuben Headlock, John Kearne and Samuel James to England, and that Reuben Headlock preside over the church, etc. be assisted by elders Hyrum Clarke and Thomas Ward. That the brothers Kearnes go to Scotland. Lucius M. Scoville go to England under the direction of Brother Headlock, and that Amos Fielding go immediately to Nauvoo, or be cut off from the church.
 

374: You have not made a mistake in the facts?
No sir.

375: But you may have made a mistake in the date?
Yes sir, but I have made none in the fact that we were married.

376: Well now was it before or after this date then?
That we were married to Joseph Smith?

377: Yes ma’am?
Well it must have been before that.

378: It must have been before that?
Yes sir, if I have made a mistake in the dates it must have been before that.

379: But you have been claiming ever since 1848 that it was the 11th day of May that you were married to him the last time?
It has been in my mind ever since that that was the date.

380: Have you got a marriage certificate?
No sir.

381: Did you ever have one?
No sir.

382: Why did you not get one?
Well it was not thought necessary in those days.

383: Now did you pass as Emily D.P. Smith in Nauvoo?
No sir, I did not.

384: Were you ever introduced by Joseph Smith as his wife?
I don’t remember that I ever was.

385: You did not go by the name while you were living in Nauvoo?
No sir.

386: That is during the life time of Joseph Smith?
No sir, I did not pass as his wife. 387 (Mistakenly listed as number 397)

386: Did you at any time or place during his life time go by the name of Emily D.P. Smith?
No sir. 388 (Mistakenly listed as number 398)

386: Were you ever held out by Joseph Smith as his wife in public?
No sir. 389 (Mistakenly listed as number 399)

386: You never were?
No sir.

390: Was you sister ever held out as his wife publicly, to your knowledge? I mean your sister Eliza who you say was married to him on the 11th of May 1843 at the same time that you were?
No sir.

391: Neither of you were?
No sir, for these things were not published or made public then. This was a secret matter that very few knew anything about at all.

392: Neither of you were?
No sir, for these things were not publicity about it?
No sir it was private.

393: How many children did you have by Joseph Smith?
None at all. I have told you two or three times I had none.

394: Now you say that in the fall of the year that Joseph Smith died, you were married to Brigham Young?
Yes sir.

395: You were married to Brigham Young by the law of proxy?
Yes sir.

396: And while married to Brigham Young by the law of proxy you had children?
Yes sir.

397: You had children by Brigham Young?
Yes sir.

398: Then the law of proxy, – marriage by the law of proxy will raise children, while marriage by the law of the church will not? Is that it?
I don’t understand your question.

399: My question is this, – that when you were married by the law of proxy you had children?
Yes sir.

400: And when you were married under the law of the church you did not raise children?
I did not have any, but I don’t know that that had anything to do with it, fir I might have had children married that way as well as under any other marriage relation.

401: But you did not have any when you were married to Joseph Smith?
No sir.

402: You did by Brigham Young though when you were married to him by proxy?
Yes sir, but that did not have anything to do with it.

403: You were in Nauvoo at the time that Joseph Smith was killed?
Yes sir.

404: You appeared at the funeral as the widow of Joseph Smith?
No sir.

405: You did not?
No sir I did not.

406: You did not appear as one of the mourners?
No sir.

407: Did your sister?
No sir.

408: Why not?
Because it was not generally known that we were married to him.

409: Did any woman besides Emma Smith, Joseph Smith’s first wife, appear at the funeral as mourners?
I don’t remember.

410: You were there were you not?
No sir, – not at the funeral.

411: Then you did not go to the funeral of your husband?
No sir I did not.

412: Did your sister go?
I do not know that there was any funeral. I know that I went to see him after he was brought home, but I don’t know that there was any funeral.

413: Do you know where he was buried?
No sir I do not.

414: Did you ever plant a flower on his grave?
No sir.

415: Did you ever see his grave?
No sir.

416: Did you ever visit it?
No sir.

417: Don’t you know that no lady on earth knew where he was buried except Emma Smith?
 
I can’t say.

418: Don’t you know that it is a fact that no woman on earth knew where he was buried except Emma Smith, his wife?
I don’t know whether any did or not. I don’t know anything about that.

419: You don’t know anything about that?
No sir.

420: And your sister did not know?
I can’t say as to that, but I don’t suppose she did.

421: You were not at the funeral?
I don’t remember being at any funeral.

422: You did not appear as his wife?
No sir. How many times am I to have to answer these questions?

423: You were never held out as his wife?
No sir not in public that I remember of.

424: And you were married to Brigham Young four and half months after Joseph Smith died?
Perhaps so.

425: Well was that not about the time?
I think so.

426: And your sister was married to some one else in about the same time?
I don’t know.

427: Well how long was it after that?
After what?

428: After the time that Joseph Smith died, and your sister was married again?
I don’t know.

429: Do you say you do not know how long it was?
I do.

430: You were living with her?
No sir.

431: Who did she marry after Joseph Smith’s death?
She married Amasa Lyman.

432: He was an elder in the church?
Yes sir.

433: And one of the twelve?
Yes sir, I believe so.

434: And Brigham Young was also one of the Twelve?
He was at that time.

435: He was president of the Quorom of Twelve was not he at that time?
I believe so.

436: Don’t you know he was?
I think so, – I am pretty sure he was. That is my understanding of it.

437: Now what do you mean by the law of proxy?
I mean that it is the law of marriage by proxy.

438: Were you married to Brigham Young by the law of proxy to raise children to Joseph Smith?
Yes sir.

439: Well have you raised any children in that way for Joseph Smith?
Yes sir.

440: Were they called Smith?
Well they were named Smith.

441: Are or were they called Smith?
They are not called Smith publicly. They go by the name of Young now, but their right name is Smith.

442: And Brigham Young was their father?
Yes sir.

443: And they are Joseph Smith’s children?
They are considered so.

444: Well were they Joseph Smith’s children?
They are so by proxy. They are considered so by proxy.

445: There are a good many children by proxy to Joseph Smith, out here, is there not?
I don’t know about that.

446: Well don’t you know that there is a good many children, – that there is a good many women out here who have married by proxy to raise children for Joseph Smith?
 
I suppose so.

447: Now when you married Brigham Young, he covenanted during the marriage ceremony – that he would take care of you during your natural life, and in the resurrection he would turn you over to Mr. Joseph Smith?
Yes sir.

448: And that is what you consider married by proxy?
 

449: Now the manner that you were married to Brigham Young in, is what you consider married by proxy?
Yes sir. That is what I consider it meant.

450: Then you were sealed to Joseph Smith at the same time that you were married to Brigham Young, were you not?
Yes sir, I was sealed to him on that day.

451: Yes ma’am?
Yes why not?

452: When you were married to Brigham Young you were sealed to Joseph Smith?
Yes sir.

453: For eternity?
Yes sir.

454: Well how were you married to Brigham Young, – were you sealed to him also?
Yes sir, but I was sealed to him for time.

455: You were not sealed to him then for both time and eternity?
No sir. Of course I was not sealed to Joseph Smith then for he was dead when I married Brigham Young, but I had been sealed to him before that.

456: Were you not sealed to him that day?
No sir.

457: You were not?
No sir, for he was dead when I was sealed to Brigham Young.

458: Was not the ceremony there that day to the effect that in eternity you would be the wife of Joseph Smith
Yes sir I suppose so. I don’t remember the words that were said but that was the purport of it.

459: That you were sealed to Brigham Young during your natural life that day?
Yes sir.

460: And eternity you were to be the wife of Joseph Smith?
Yes sir.

461: But you never had any children by Joseph Smith?
No sir.

462: You did though by Brigham Young?
Yes sir.

463: When was the birth of your first child?
It occured on the 30th of October in 1845.

464: When did you leave Nauvoo?
In 1846.

465: Then it was born at Nauvoo?
Yes sir.

466: What time did you leave Nauvoo in 1846?
In the month of February I think.

467: Now when did Joseph Smith die?
In 1844.

468: What time in 1844 did he die?
In June, – it was the 23rd of June I think.

469: Which was it the 23rd of June or the 27th?
Yes sir that is right, – If I am not mistaken it was het 27th of June.

470: No you were mistaken when you said you roomed with Joseph Smith on the night of hte 11th of May were you not?
Well if that in there is correct I was mistaken in the date.

471: On what date do you desire to fix now as the date of you marriage to Joseph Smith?
I don’t desire to fix on any date at all. As I told you before I can swear to the fact that I was married to Joseph Smith, but I can’t swear to any date if that is not the right one. That is the date that has always been in my mind, and if it is wrong I can’t fix any other date as being the correct date, but I can swear positively to the fact that I was married to him. If I am mistaken in the date I can’t help it at all.

472: Was he married to your sister previous to that date.
I suppose she was.

473: Was what?
Was married to him?

474: Well do you know whether she was or was not?
I suppose she was.

475: I want what you know, and not what you suppose?
I don’t know only by her word.

476: He was not married to her in your presence was he?
No sir, not before that last time.

477: That is he time that you married him?
Yes sir, that is the only time that I ever saw them married.

478: Had he roomed with her to your knowledge?
No sir, not to my knotledge.

479: Did he ever room with her to your knowledge?
No sir, I do not know anything about that at all.

480: Had you roomed with him prior to that thime that you say you roomed with him at his house on the night after you were married the last time?
No sir, – not roomed with him.

481: Well had you slept with him?
Yes sir.

482: Slept with him prior to the time that you were married to him?
What is that?

483: I mean prior to the time that you were married to him, as you say, on the 11th of May?
Yes sir I had prior to that.

484: Had you before the fourth of March 1843?
No sir on the 11th of May 1843 what was the ceremony?
Well I say perhaps it was not the 11th of May, –

485: Now at the time that you were married as you say on the 11th of May 1843 what was the ceremony?
Well I say perhaps it was not the 11th of May, –

486: You now do not swear positively to the date of that marriage?
No sir, but I say that I do to the fact that we were married.

487: Well what was that ceremony on that occasion?
Well I acn’t tell you, I can’t repeat it.

488: Did Emma take your hand that place it in Joseph Smith’s hand?
I think she did.

489: Well are you willing to swear on your oath that she did?
Well no, – It seems to me that way, but then I think she did, but I could not swear to it at all.

490: You cannot swear that she did?
No sir.

491: Have you seen that done since that time?
Well I don’t remember whether I did or not.

492: Did not Brigham Young’s wife do that with you when you married Brigham Young?
No sir.

493: Why did she not do it?
She was not present.

494: Well did she give her consent to your marrying Brigham Young?
No sir, not to my knowledge, for she was not there.

495: Were you married the second time to Brigham Young?
Yes sir.

496: You were married twice to him also?
Yes sir.

497: Did she give her consent the second time you were married to him?
No sir.

498: Where was she?
I don’t know. She was not there.

499: What was the date of your second marriage to Brigham Young?
Well that is something that I can’t tell you for I don’t remember that either.

500: Was it before you left Nauvoo?
Yes sir.

501: Where was the ceremony performed?
It was in the temple.

502: You said that your first child was born in October 1845?
Yes sir.

503: Was this second marriage to Brigham Young performed after that child was born?
Yes sir.

504: Then it was in 1846 that you were married to him the second time?
No sir, I don’t remember when it was, but I think it was before that.

505: Don’t you know whether or not his first wife gave her consent to that marriage?
No sir. I don’t know whether she did or did not. I don’t know anything about it at all.

506: Well do you know whether the second wife had to give hers or not?
No sir.

507: You were not the second wife of Brigham Young?
No sir.

508: He had other wives at that time besides you?
Yes sir.

509: Now how many wives did Joseph Smith have besides yourself?
I don’t know.

510: How you any knowledge on that subject at all?
No sir.

511: Do you know of any other child that was born in polygamy prior to the birth of yours?
No sir, I don’t know of any.

512: Yours was the first one that was born in polygamy to your knowledge was it not?
No sir.

513: It was not?
No sir. I think there were others born before that, but I don’t know them.

514: Now when you first heard about this revelation, you say that it was on the question of sealing?
It was what?

515: It was a revelation on the question of sealing?
On sealing did you say?

516: I asked you if you did not state when you first heard of this revelation it was on the question of sealing or celestial marriage?
Yes sir.

517: It was a revelation on that subject?
Yes sir.

518: That is on sealing or celestial marriage?
Yes sir.

519: And you are certain that that is what the revelation was about ain’t you?
Well I think so.

520: Well now was it a revelation on the patriarchial order of marriage?
Well I don’t know whether you would call it “patriarchial marriage”, or what you would call it.

521: Well did Joseph Smith call it that?
I don’t know.

522: Well didn’t he call it sealing, or celestial marriage?
He generally called it celestial marriage, or sealing. It was called sealing for it was for time and eternity.

523: That was what it was called at that time?
Yes sir.

524: Now he talked to you about that in 1842 did he not?
About what?

525: He taught you the principle of polygamy did not he at that time?
No sir.

526: Do you swear not that he did not teach it to you then?
No sir I don’t think that he taught me that principle then, – I don’t think he did.

527: Well he talked about the principle of celestial marriage in 1842 and taught it to you then did he not?
No sir I don’t think he said anything about that either then. I think it was after that.

528: Have you not sworn here that he did teach you that in 1842?
No sir, I said that he spoke to me and told me he had something to tell me but he did not tell me what it was at that time. It run on for some time before he told me what it was he had to tell me.

529: Well no from the time he offered to write you a letter, or spoke to you about writing you a letter, that was in 1842 was it not?
I think it was.

530: And he had spoken to you before that?
Well he said he had something to tell me, but he did not tell me what it was until after that.

531: Then it was the second time he spoke to you about it that he said he thought of writing you a letter on the subject?
Yes sir. He spoke of writing me a letter, but he did not say what the subject was, and I did not know what the subject was until later.

532: Well in the meantime you had heard the subject discussed?
Well I had heard the reports that were out, and I thought that what he had to say to me might be something relating to that.

533: You had heard outside by talking to women that the subject of celestial marriage was being quietly discussed?
Yes sir, I heard of it.

534: You head and found out that it was being quietly talked over?
Well now I don’t know whether my information was gained from talking with women, or from reading the papers or books or something of that kind.

535: Well the fact is you heard of it?
Yes sir, I heard something about it.

536: You heard of the secret wife system of Dr John C. Bennett too about that time did you not?
Yes sir.

537: Did the church as a church, claim that there was no such a system in the church at that time?
I can’t say, for I don’t know what the church claimed.

538: Were you not a member of the Ladies Relief Society at that time?
I can’t say. I don’t remember that I was.

539: Then you were not a member of the Ladies Relief Society at Nauvoo at that time?
I say I don’t remember whether I was or was not.

540: You do remember of John C. Bennett’s “secret wife system”?
Yes sir, I recollect hearing of it.

541: And you do not know whether the church at that time made any declaration on the secret wife system or not?
No sir. I don’t remember anything about that.

542: Or marriage of any kind?
Oh I suppose they claimed to be, – (Handwritten in right corner of page: cross examination) to have marriage in the church. I suppose it was not necessary to make any declaration on that.

543: Well don’t you know that they published through the church paper at that time,-the Times & Seasons the statement,-a statement denouncing the secret wife marriage in 1842?
No sir I don’t remember that.

544: You don’t remember that?
No sir.

545: An you don’t recollect whether or not you belonged to the Ladies Relief Society?
No Sir.

546: Well you have read the section on marriage in the book of Doctrine and Covenants have you not?
Yes sir.

547: Now don’t you know that in 1842 the church in Nauvoo disclaimed any other or different form of marriage that that contained in the book of Doctrine and Covenants?
No sir.

548: Do you swear that you do not know that to have been the position of the church on the question of marriage in 1842?
I do.

549: You don’t know anything about that?
I say I don’t remember. I do not know that I understand your question properly to answer it fully, but if I understand your question properly that is my answer.

550: Well what I mean is this Mrs. Young,-don”t you know that the church through its principle officers published a declaration if 1852,-in 1842 I mean,-denying there was any such a system practiced in the church as secret or plural marriage?
No sir.
No sir, I don’t remember anything of the kind.

551: You knew that in the 1843 the book of Doctrine and Covenants prohibited a man from having more than one wife at a time did you not?
Well I don’t know that I did.

552: You knew the section on marriage that was in the book of Doctrine and Covenants did you not?
Well that can be explained I suppose.

553: Well you knew it was there did you not, and you knew what it was too, at that time, didn’t you?
Well I say that can be explained I suppose.

554: I am not asking you for an explanation of it,-I askyou if you did not know that the section on marriage was there, and you knew what it contained,-you knew what it was as it was printed in that book of Doctrine and Covenants?
Yes sir, at that time I did.

555: Still you vacillated what you knew to be the church law, and married a man whom you knew had more than one wife?
Yes sir,-well I did not know that either,-

556: You married Joseph Smith?
Yes sir.

557: And you knew at the time you married him that he has a wife named Emma?
Yes sir, I knew that too, but if Joseph Smith had one revelation he could have others too. He had a revelation permitting,-

558: Well never mind about the revelation he had,-You say you knew that Joseph Smith had a wife named Emma at that time?
Yes sir I knew that.

559: And still in the face of that knowledge,-of the knowledge of what the low of the church was on the question of marriage as printed in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants at that time, and the further knowledge that he had a wife living, you married him?
 
Yes sir.

560: Well now has the church adopted any other rule of action or practice in regard to marriage than that found in the book of doctrine and covenants?
No sir.

561: You never heard it proclaimed as the church law?
No sir, I don’t remember that I did.

562: I remember, – I mean this polygamous revelation in Nauvoo, – do you remember of hearing of its ever bring brought before the church in any manner, or do you know of it?
No sir.

563: I mean at any time before the death of Joseph Smith or after his death while the church was at Nauvoo?
No sir.

564: But you did after you came here to Salt Lake City here or know of the revelation on polygamy being bought before the church here for adoption?
Yes sir, I suppose I did, but I don’t remember of any particular time of that being done.

565: Well I am not asking you for the particular time, – I am asking you if you remember the fact?
Yes sir, I heard something about it.

566: You never saw the revelation on polygamy? until after you came here?
I can’t say.

567: Well what is your best impression or recollection about that?
I don’t recollect whether I ever did or not.

568: Well what is your best recollection about it?
I saw it after I came here.

569: You saw it after you came here?
Yes sir.

570: Well did you see it before you came here?
I might.

571: Well do you say you did?
No sir, I do not say I did.

572: Do you say it was ever written or printed or published in any form whatever, before you came here to Salt Lake City?
I don’t know.

573: What was the name of the church paper, – the official church paper when you were at Nauvoo, Illinois?
Well there was the “Nauvoo Neighbour”, that was one paper.

574: I mean the church paper, – the paper published by the church?
The “Times & Seasons”, was one paper.

575: Was that a church paper?
I understood it to be.

576: Was there any other church paper published there other than that?
I don’t remember if there was, I think not though. There might have been, but I don’t remember.

577: I will get you to look at this book and see if you can identify that as the “Times & Seasons”?
It looks like it, but I haven’t seen any bound like it (here witness gets her spectacles and puts them on, and answers). Yes sir I should call that the Times & Seasons, so far as I know.

578: Where was that published?
At Nauvoo.

579: What do you say it is?
It is the Times & Seasons all right but I was in a little doubt about it at first for I never saw any bound like that before. It is the Times & Seasons though all right.

580: I am going to read from the Times & Seasons published at the city of Nauvoo on Saturday, October 1st 1842, on page 939.

582: I will read an article taken from the book of Doctrine and Covenants of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, on marriage.
 

583: The article I propose to read being the same identical article as the section on marriage in the 1835 edition of the book of Doctrine and Covenants, marked exhibit “E” heretofore introduced as evidence.
No sir I do not recollect them.

583: Do you recollect that language I have just read to you as something that you have just read before, something that you have read at any time past?
I don’t know as I do.

584: Don’t you recollect that that article was published in the church paper in 1842 when you were in Nauvoo?
No sir I do not remember it.

585: Do you recollect the controversy that came up at that time about Dr. J.C. Bennett’s secret wife system?
I remember something about it, but I don’t think what he taught was what Joseph taught. I don’t think what he practiced was what Joseph taught at all.

586: Well that is not what I am asking you, I asked you if you remembered the flurry that was up about that time about John C. Bennett’s secret wife system. I simply asked you if you remember of that without reference to what he taught?
I say I remember something about it.

587: Was it during that time that you had head of the secret wife doctrine that you heard these rumors floating around about celestial marriage that you spoke of?
I don’t remember whether I had heard of it at that time or not.

588: You don’t recollect about that?
No sir.

589: Well was it during this time that you had the conversations with Joseph Smith that you have related?
I don’t know. I don’t know whether it was after that or not. I can’t remember how that was.

590: You don’t remember whether it was after that or not?
No sir.

591: Now I will read to you this certificate for the purpose of refreshing your recollection, “We the undersigned members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and residents of the city of Nauvoo, persons of families do hereby certify and declare that we know of no other rule or system of marriage, then the one published from the book of Doctrine and Covenants, and we give this certificate to show that Dr. J.C. Bennett’s “secret wife system” is a creature of his own make, and we know of no such a society in this place, nor never did”. That is signed by, “S. Bennett, George Miller, Alpheus Cutler, Reynolds Cahoon, Wilson Law, W. Woodruff, N.K. Whitney, Albert Petty, Elias H. Higbee, John Taylor, E. Robinson, and Aaron Johnson”. Now was that not published in your church paper there at Nauvoo?
I don’t remember.

592: After reading it to you you do not recollect whether it was published or not?
No sir I don’t recollect bout it.

593: Well do you say it was not published?
No sir, it was published I suppose if it is in there.

594: Well if published as I have read it , was it true?
I don’t know, they might not know anything of it at the time.

595: You new Newel K. Whitney at that time did you not?
Yes sir.

596: You are well acquainted with him?
Yes sir pretty well.

597: He was an officer in the church at that time?
Yes sir.

598: He was the bishop of the church wasn’t he?
Yes sir.

599: You also knew Albert Petty?
No sir.

600: But you did know E. Robinson?
What Robinson?

601: It is “E Robinson” here?
Ebeneezer Robinson?

602: Yes I suppose that is the name?
Yes sir I knew him.

603: He was one of the publishers of the paper there, the Time and Seasons wasn’t he, at that time?
He was at one time.

604: You knew Woodruf?
Yes sir.

605: It was Wilford Woodruf?
Yes sir.

606: The present President of the church out here in this section of country?
Yes sir.

607: You knew him at that time?
Yes sir. Well no I did not either, I had heard of him, but I was not acquainted with him at that time.

608: Well he was a member of the Twelve wasn’t her?
Yes sir.

609: You knew John Taylor at that time didn’t you?
Yes sir, by sight I did.

610: You also knew Elias Higbee?
Yes sir.

611: And Alpheus Cutler, you knew him also?
Yes sir, but I was not personally acquainted with him, but I knew him by sight.

612: And Wilson Law, you knew him?
Yes sir.

613: And Reynolds Cahoon?
Yes sir.

614: And George Miller?
Yes sir, I knew all of them either personally or by sight I think.

615: Well you knew George Miller?
Yes sir.

616: And S. Bennett?
Yes sir, I knew him too.

617: Were not all of these men whose names are signed to that declaration, prominent men int eh church at that time?
Yes sir, some of them were.

518: Well John Taylor and Woodruf and Higbee and Cahoon and Cutler and Whitney, were all prominent members of the church, were they not?
Yes sir, some of them were prominent men there.

619: Whitney was a bishop wasn’t he?
Yes sir, he was a prominent man.

620: And Taylor and Woodruf were members of the Twelve? were they not?
Yes sir.

621: They were prominent men too were they not?
Yes sir, but I did not know much about Cahoon. I did not know about him only by hearsay.

622: Well Taylor and Woodruf were members of the Twelve and they are the only ones I was talking about, or asking you about?
Yes sir.

523: And Robinson was one of the publishers of the church paper?
Yes sir I believe he was.

624: What about Aron Johnson? Did you know him?
I did by sight. That was all.

625: He was one of the prominent men in the church?
I don’t know whether he was or not.

626: What position, if any, did he hold in the church?
I don’t know what he was.

627: Now if you had learned in 1842 at any time, anything about a secret wife system, or heard it discussed in any manner, would not the publication of this certicate I have read, together with the names on it, of the members of your own church with whom you were acquainted, have brought it to your attention?
It might if I had ever read it, but I don’t remember that I ever read it.

628: You don’t remember that you ever read it?
No sir.

629: You read the church paper did you not?
Well some of them I suppose I did. I don’t know that I read all that was in them, or everything that was printed, but some of them I did read.

630: Well let me further refresh your recollection by reading this certificate,-“We the undersigned members of the ladies relief society, and married females, do certify and declare that we know know of no system of marriage being practiced in the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints save the one contained in the book of doctrine and covenants, and we give this certificate to the public to show that J.C. Bennett’s secret wife system is a disclosure of his own make”. That is signed by the following names,-“Emma Smith President, Elizabeth Ann Whitney, Counselor, Sarah M. Cleveland, Counselor, Eliza R. Snow Secretary, Mary C. Miller, Lois Cutler, Thirza Cahoon, Ann Hunter, Jane Law, Sophia R. Marks, Polly Z. Johnson, Abigal Works, Catherine Petty, Sarah Higbee, Phebe Woodruff, Lenora Taylor, Sarah Hillman, Rosannah Marks, and Angeline Robinson”. Now that is the names of the signers to that document. ow that is signed first by Emma Smith as its President you knew her did you not?
Yes sir.

631: She was the wife of Joseph Smith, the prophet?
Yes sir.

632: And she was the president of the ladies relief society there in Nauvoo?
Yes sir, I believe she was.

633: Well there:was Elizabeth Ann Whitney, the Counselor,-you knew her?
Yes sir.

634: She was counselor to the president about that time?
I believe so.

635: There was Sarah M. Cleveland,-you knew her also?
Yes sir, I knew her.

636: Elizabeth R. Snow, Secretary, did you know her too?
Yes sir.

637: She was the secretary?
Yes sir.

638: Were you well acquainted with her?
Yes sir, I knew her very well.

639: These four were all prominent women in the Ladies Relief Society?
Yes sir.

640: Now here is Mary C Miller,-did you know her?
No sir.

641: Lois Cutler,-did you know her?
No sir I did not know her at all. I did not know either of them. I don’t remember Lois Cutler at all.

642: Thirza Cahoon,-did you know her?
No sir.

643: Ann Hunter,-did you know her>
No sir.

644: Jane Law?-
Yes sir I knew her.

645: She was the wife of James Law?
Yes sir. No sir that is a mistake it was William Law.

646: Sophia R. Marks,-did you know her?
Well I think I did, but not very well.

647: Polly Z. Johnson, – did you know her?
No sir.

648: Abigal Works, – did you know her?
No sir.

649: What about Catherine Petty?
I didn’t know her either.

650: Well thee was Phebe Woodruf, – you knew her didn’t you?
Yes sir.

651: Were you well acquainted with her?
Yes sir pretty well.

652: She was the wife of President Woodruf here wasn’t she?
Yes sir.

653: Is she living here now?
No sir. She is dead.

654: Lenora Taylor?
Yes sir.

655: You knew her?
Yes sir.

656: She was the wife of John Taylor?
Yes sir.

657: Is the living?
No sir.

658: Did you know Sarah Hillman?
No sir.

659: Or Rosannah Marks?
No sir.

660: You did not know her?
No sir.

661: Did you know the President of the stake there at Nauvoo?
Yes sir.

662: What was his name?
It was Marks at one time.

663: William Marks?
Yes sir.

664: Well that is the one I refer to?
Yes sir, I knew him.

665: Did you know hat his wifes name was?
No sir. I have seen her, but I didn’t know what her name was.

666: Do you know whether or not it was Rosannak Marks?
No sir.

667: You know the President of the stake’s name was William Marks?, but you don’t know what his wife’s name was?
No sir, I don’t know what her name was, but I knew her, – that is I knew who she was when I could see her.

668: Did you know Angeline Robinson?
I think I knew her. I think she was the wife of Enenezer Robinson, and if she was I knew her.

669: Were not all these women whose names I have read prominent women there in the church in Nauvoo, in the church work?
Yes sir, I suppose they were. As far as I knew they were, – some of them I knew where, but as I did now know the others, or cannot remember them, I cannot say. I cannot say as to all of them. 670 (Mistakenly listed as a second number 669)

669: And still you want to go on record as saying that after this statement made by so many prominent women in the work of the church there at Nauvoo, and members of he church, whose husbands also in a great many instances occupied prominent offices and important offices in connection with the government of the church, – that you do not know anything about the practice being denounced of polygamy?
I don’t say that, – I do not say that it was not denounced I say that I don’t remember anything about it, but it probably was. I have no doubt but what it was published just as it is there and at the time too.

671: And still do you say not withstanding this public, and unqualified denounciation of polygamy, that at this very time you and Joseph Smith were not only secretly talking polygamy but were practicing it?
Yes sir.

672: You were?
Yes sir. I don’t know what it was right at that time, but it was shortly after that.

673: You said awhile ago that you talked it over in 1842.
Yes sir.

674: And this was in 1842?
Well I have saud what he said to me, but he did not say you knew anything to me about polygamy at that time. That was before the time that he said anything about polygamy.

675: Well he talked over the secret wife system with you, didn’t he?
What?

676: He talked secret wife to you in 1842 didn’t he?
I don’t know that he said about secret wives or anything of the kind in 1842. I don’t know that he said a word about it in 1842. I have told you that he came to me first one day in his house, when he and I were together, and he said that he had something to tell me if I could keep a secret, and he would tell me if he could get an opportunity, and he did not say anything about what it was he was going to tell me that time; and then after that some time, – I don’t know how long, – he met me again and spoke to me about it, but I did not know what he meant then until some time afterwards. That was the second time he spoke to me about it, and that was the time that he told me he would write me a letter, and I told him that I did not want him to write me a letter, – that was in 1842 I think, – I would not be positive but I thin it was, and there was nothing said about secret wives at any of these times.

677: Well did you not say that before he spoke to you he second time and spoke about writing the letter to you, that you found out outside what it was, that he was going to say or write to you?
No sir I did not say I found out what it was. I said I thought I knew what it was, but it was all guess work with me.

678: Then he never said anything to you about polygamy?
Not at that time.

679: Did he ever say anything to you after that about polygamy?
No sir, for it was not called polygamy at that time.

680: Well what was it called, – was it called “sealing”?
It was called plural marriage, or sealing.

681: It was also called “celestial marriage” wasn’t it?
Yes sir.

682: is that not what it was called, – “celestial marriage” or “sealing”?
Yes sir.

683: It was not called “polygamous marriage”, at that time?
No sir. It was not that I remember of.

684: Was it called the “plural wife” system?
Yes sir.

685: Is that the term he employed in speaking to you about it?
I don’t remember all that he did do or say. I can’t remember just what he said, – that is impossible. It was “celestial marriage”, or “plural marriage” or some thing of that kind that he called it.

686: Well now as a fact, don’t you know that there was a revelation on sealing?
Yes sir.

687: You remember that?
Yes sir.

688: And don’t you remember that that is what he was talking to you about, and not about the revelation on plural marriage or polygamy?
Well I know I thought it was all the same.

689: Well now don’t you know they are two seperate and distinct documents?
Well that may be, but the principle is the same and you may called it plural marriage or polygamy or whatever you please and that don’t make a bit of difference for the principle is the same whatever name it is called by.

690: Who taught you that the two revelations were the same?
Well I don’t know that any body taught me.

691: Were you not taught that after you came here?
Taught what?

692: Taught that the principles were the same?
I suppose I was but I don’t remember.

693: Brigham Young taught you they were the same?
What, – the two revelations?

694: Yes madam?
I don’t know anything about two revelations on that. I don’t know anything but about one revelation on plural marriage. 695 (___ seamed should be sealed____)

694: Don’t you know there is one on sealing that permits a woman to be seamed to her husband for eternity?
Well I don’t know about that for I had no husband about that time, and so I can’t say I know there was a revelation on sealing.

696: You say you know there was a revelation on sealing?
Yes sir.

697: Now was that not what Joseph Smith was talking about when he spoke to you, – was it not about this revelation on sealing?
 

698: Was not Joseph Smith talking to you about that revelation on sealing?
No sir.

699: How do you know he was not?
I know it.

700: Well how do you know it?
Well I guess I have a bit of common sense about some things.

701: Now do you say that he talked to you about a revelation on plural marriage at the time he talked to you on the 4th of March 1848 when you were first marriage?
What is that?

702: I asked you if it is not a fact that Joseph Smith talked to you at the time you were married on the 4th of March 1843, about a revelation on plural marriage?
Yes sir.

703: He talked to you at that time about the revelation on plural marriage?
Yes sir.

704: And not the revelation on sealing, – is that what I understand you to say?
Yes sir.

705: And you are positive of that?
Yes sir.

706: Now then had the revelation on plural marriage been given at that time?
I don’t think that it had been publicly given out.

707: Had it been given to Joseph Smith at all?
He had a revelation, but I don’t know that it was ever published or written at that time, but he had it.

708: Well was that not the one on sealing?
No sir.

709: You say it was not?
I guess not, but I don’t know, – I don’t think it was?

710: How do you know it was not the revelation on sealing, – did you ever see it?
On sealing?

711: Yes madam?
I don’t know that I ever did.

712: Did you ever see the one on polygamy until after you came here to Salt Lake City?
I don’t know that I did.

713: Did that revelation permit any body but Joseph Smith to perform the ceremony of sealing?
I believe not.

714: You believe not?
Yes sir. Not without his permission.

715: Does it say that anyone could perform it with his permission?
I don’t know that it does. 716 (___ever should be every____)

715: Don’t you know it prohibits ever body but Joseph Smith from performing the ceremony of sealing?
I think it does but I don’t know.

717: Did the one on sealing prohibit every body but him?
Well I don’t know, – I don’t think it did.

718: Then you were married to Joseph Smith on or under the revelation on sealing, were you not?
No sir.

719: You swear positively you were not?
No sir.

720: You swear that you were not married under the revelation on sealing to Joseph Smith?
Yes sir,

721: And that you were married to him under the revelation on plural marriage?
Yes sir.

722: Under the polygamy revelation, – so called?
Yes sir.

723: The first time you were married to him was in March – I believe you stated about the 4th of March 1843?
Yes sir, some where about there.

724: Now I would like for you to explain how you were married to Joseph Smith under the provisions of a revelation on polygamy or plural marriage in March 1843, when the church you belong to claims the revelation was not given to Joseph Smith until some time in July 1843?, – you were married in March, and the revelation was not received until some time in July, – please explain how that could be?
Well it was received before that.

725: What was received before that?
The revelation was.

726: How do you know it was?
Well he told me he had a revelation.

727: He had not received this one has he?
Well I don’t know anything about that, but he told me he had this one then, – I know that.

728: But that was the revelation on sealing?
No sir, it was the revelation on plural marriage.

729: You swear it was the one on plural marriage?
Yes sir. It was on plural marriage.

730: How do you know it was the revelation on plural marriage?
He told me so.

731: Who told you so?
Joseph Smith told me so.

732: Well now was it not under this one that was given in July 1843 that you were married under?
No sir.

733: it was not this one?
I think not.

734: Then it was under another one?
Yes sir it must have been, – he told me he had one on that, and it was before July too.

735: Then you were not married to Joseph Smith under this revelation that was given him on the 12th day of July 1843?
No sir I don’t think I was. I don’t see how I could be married in March under a revelation given in the July following.

736: I don’t see how you could be either, and that is what I wanted to get you to say.
Well I don’t know whether it was the same or not.

737: This section one hundred and thirty two published in the book of doctrine and Covenants issued by the Church here in Salt Lake City reads, – “Revelation on the eternity of the marriage covenant including plurality of wives, given through Joseph the Seer, in Nauvoo, Hancock County, Illinois, July 12th 1843”. Now you were not married under that, for you could not have been married to Joseph Smith under something that was given to him three months or over after you were married to him?
No sir, I should think not.

738: Then if you were married to him, it must have been under some other law, and not this law?
Well it was not under any law, – it was under a revelation on the same subject?

739: Don’t you know that he had a revelation on sealing that did not permit anything else but sealing for time and eternity?
A revelation on that?

740: Yes ma’am?
No sir, I don’t remember anything, being talked about that revelation.

741: And you were not sealed for time and eternity under that revelation?
I was sealed to him for time and eternity.

742: Now after your marriage did Emma Smith call you the wife of Joseph Smith?
I don’t know that she did. I don’t remember that she ever did.

743: You have no recollection of her ever addressing you as his wife?
No sir.

744: Did she ever recognize you as his wife?
After we were married she did not.

745: She never recognized you as his wife at any time or place?
No sir, I think not.

746: Did she ever claim that you were his wife?
No sir.

747: Did you ever live with Joseph Smith after you were married to him after that first night that you roomed together?
No sir. Emma knew that we were married to him, but she never allowed us to live with him

748: Now you make that statement in the face of the declaration that Emma Smith made in 1875 in which she said she never gave her consent for any body to marry Joseph?
Yes sir I do.

749: And you make that declaration here at this time in the presence of a declaration signed by the present president of your church that at the very time you say you were having conversations with Joseph Smith about this matter, that there was no such a practice taught or practiced in the church?
I make the statement here that I was married to Joseph Smith there at Nauvoo.

750: And you also make the declaration that you roomed with him on the night of the 11th of May 1843?
No sir I said it was in my mind that that was the day that I was married to him the second time, but when you read his diary I see that I was mistaken and I don’t say that was the date now, although it always run in my mind that that was the time.

751: Well do you make the declaration that you ever roomed with him at any time?
Yes sir.

752: Do you make the declaration that you ever slept with him in the same bed?
Yes sir.

753: How many nights?
One.

754: Only one night?
Yes sir.

755: Then you only slept with him in the same bed one night?
Yes sir.

756: Did you ever have carnal intercourse with Joseph Smith?
Yes sir.

757: How many nights?
I could not tell you.

758: Do you make the declaration that you never slept with him but one night?
Yes sir.

759: And that was the only time and place that you ever were in bed with him?
No sir.

760: Were you in bed with him at any [place] before that time?
Before what time?

761: Before you were married?
No sir, not before I was married to him I never was.

762: Do you mean that you were in bed with him after the 4th of March 1843?
Yes sir, but that was after I was first married to him.

763: And that was before this revelation on plural marriage was given wasn’t it?
I suppose it was.

764: Now after your attention is called to the time this revelation was given on July 12th 1843, do you still insist that you were married under this revelation?
No, I don’t. I don’t insist upon any such a thing.

765: Will you be kind enough to tell me under what revelation you were married then?
I don’t know what revelation it was, but he told me himself in so many words that he had a revelation, and that was the revelation we were married under. I just took his word for it, and I believed he had it.

766: Did you see it?
No sir I did not see it. I don’t suppose it was written at that time.

767: Had the church ever seen it?
I don’t think it had.

768: You had not seen it yourself and you don’t think the church had seen it?
No sir, I did not see it and I don’t know anything about the church.

769: Had anything been presented to the church at that time?
I don’t think it had.

770: Had anything been published about it?
No sir, not publicly, but some people must have known about it because I heard it whispered around there in Nauvoo, before he told me what it was, and that is what made me suspect what it was at the time he spoke about writing the letter to me.

771: Was it not in violation of the church law for Joseph Smith to marry another wife while his first wife was living?
No sir.

772: Remember that that was before this revelation was given?
No sir for he had the revelation at that time but it was not written I suppose. He had a revelation before this one here that was not written.

773: How do you know he had?
Well if that written revelation was not given until July 12th he had one before that for he told me so.

774: Well he dad one wife before that?
Yes sir.

775: Before you married him in March?
Yes sir.

776: What I want to get at, is or was there any law of the church at that time,-that is at the time you say you married him in March 1848 that permitted him to have more that one wife?
I only know what he told me, and I know what was done. That is all I know about it.

777: Did you ever see any of the law of the church that permitted it?
No sir.

778: And he married you at that time?
Yes sir.

779: Then do you say that Joseph Smith was greater that the law? So you say he made the law and was great-or that it?
Yes sir, I think the law was revealed through him.

780: Was he higher that the law that God gave?
Well I don’t know whether you could consider him so or not.

781: Well I want to know what you say about it?
I can’t say anything about it.

782: Well was not Jesus Christ higher that the law?
I don’t know anything about it.

783: Don’t you know that Jesus claimed he was subject to the law?
I suppose so.

784: And did not Joseph claim that he was subject to the law. He never claimed that he was greater than the law, but claimed that he was subject to it, didn’t he?
I don’t know that he did?

785: Now I understand you as wanting to go on record as saying, that in the face of the law of the church that prohibited plural marriage, Joseph Smith married you?
Well I know that he married me. I know that.

786: And did that in the face of the law of the church which prohibited plural marriage,-he did that in the face that law, or any other law, so far as the published law of the church was concerned.?
 
I don’t know anything about that only what he told me, and I know what was done. He told me that he had a revelation permitting it, and I thought it was right or I would not have done it.

787: Now Mrs Young, don’t you know that you were just simple sealed to him for eternity? Don’t you know that that was all that was done Mrs Young. – that you were simply sealed to him for eternity?
I know that I was sealed to him for time and eternity.

788: Now could you be sealed to him for time?
Marry who.

789: How could you marry Brigham Young for time?
Well my husband was dead when I did that, I was not sealed to him for eternity, – it was just for time.

790: Well the fact that he was dead did not release you for time, – you married him in the first instance for time and eternity, and the fact that he was dead did not release you for time did it?
You were married to Joseph Smith for time and all eternity?
Yes sir.

791: Then how could you marry again?
Well I did marry again.

792: I know that, but what I want to know is how you could do it, even assuming for the sake of argument that this revelation, – that this polygamy revelation is true?
Well I don’t know only that I did marry again.

793: Then you violated the law of the church again did you not?
Well if you want to have it that way I have no objection, for you can have it just as you like.

794: Well what I want to get at is, if you were sealed to Joseph Smith for time, by marrying Brigham Young you violated your obligation, did you not?
No sir.

795: You did not?
No sir, I don’t consider it so at all.

796: Then you were not sealed to them during the natural life of either of them?
Yes sir.

797: You were?
Yes sir.

798: To which one?
To both of them.

799: What, – was that the worlds that were used?
Do you mean that I was sealed to both of them during the time that they were both living?

800: I mean, – were you sealed to Joseph Smith during the term of your natural life?
Yes sir.

801: And you were also sealed to Brigham Young during the term of your natural life?
Yes sir, – after Joseph’s death I was. I was not sealed to Brigham Young until after the Joseph’s death, but then I was sealed to him for my life.

802: Did the term of your natural life cease when you married Brigham Young?
Yes sir, for my natural life.

803: I asked you if your natural life ceased at the time that you married Brigham Young?
My natural life?

804: Yes ma’am?
I suppose so.

805: Well you were sealed to Joseph Smith during the term of your natural life?
Yes sir.

806: Was there any law of the church that permitted you to be sealed to a man during the term of his natural life, and when he died that permitted you to be again sealed to another man during the term of your natural life?
I suppose there was.

807: Now was not the marriage ceremony between you this – that you were both sealed to each other during the years of your natural lives. and there was nothing said about that?
No sir.

808: Well if it was not that, what was it?
It was for time and eternity both.

809: That was the ceremony at the time you married Joseph Smith?
Yes sir.

810: And yet within four months of the death of Joseph Smith, although you were married to him for time and eternity, you married Brigham Young?
Yes sir.

811: You recollect distinctly that it was both time and eternity?
Yes sir.

812: And there was nothing said about your “natural lives”?
I don’t remember that there was anything said about natural lives.

813: Was it for all time and eternity?
Yes sir.

814: Well if you were sealed for all time how could you marry again?
Well I could marry again.

815: You married again whether there was any law for it or not?
Yes sir, -I married again, -that is sure.

816: Now did you not get that declaration about “time and eternity” from this revelation alleged to have been given in 1843 on July 12th?
No sir I did not.

817: Now you said there was a revelation on sealing?
Yes sir.

818: Do you say that that declaration in reference to “time and eternity” was in the one on sealing?
It was in the ceremony that was performed when I was married, I don’t know what was in the revelation, but I know it was in the ceremony when I was married.

819: What obligation did Joseph Smith take when you were married to him?
I don’t know that I understand that question.

820: Well there was a marriage ceremony performed was there not at the time that you were married to Joseph Smith?
There was.

821: You agreed to certain things did you not?
Yes sir.

822: And he also agreed to certain things didn’t he?
Yes sir.

823: What did you agree to?
Well we agreed to be each other’s companions, -husband and wife?

824: Keeping yourselves for each other, and wholly from all others?
Well I did.

825: You say you agreed to that?
Yes sir.

826: That is what you agreed to on your part?
Yes sir.

827: Well didn’t he agree to the same thing?
No sir I think not, for he could have other wives.

828: Then on your part you say you agreed to keep yourself for him and wholly from all others, during your natural life, didn’t you?
Yes sir.

829: And he agreed to care for you during the term of your natural life, didn’t he?
Yes sir, while he lived anyway, -but I don’t remember the ceremony that was used very well or what was said, -I have only a kind of a general recollection of it now.

830: Did he not take an obligation to keep himself wholly from all others during the term of his natural life?
No sir, of course not.

831: Well what did he say?
I don’t remember.

832: What questions were asked him?
I don’t remember. I don’t remember the ceremony I told you.

833: You don’t remember anything about the ceremony?
Not the words.

834: Was there a record made of the marriage?
I think so.

835: Who made it?
I don’t remember that.

836: You do not recollect who the clerk was?
No sir.

837: As a matter of fact you don’t remember that there was a clear there, or whether there was nay record kept or made of the marriage?
No sir, but I thin there was.

838: Was the clerk of the branch there?
I don’t remember.

839: That is the first time you were married to Joseph Smith?
I said I did not remember.

840: Was the clerk of the branch there the second time you were married to him?
I don’t remember.

841: Now, did any one make a record of the marriage?
I suppose there was a record of the marriage made, but I don’t know it.

842: You never say one?
No sir, I never did.

843: And you, yourself, did not keep a record of it?
No sir, I did not. I am sorry to say.

844: Did you not know that marriages ought to be recorded in the county seat of the county I which they are solemnized?
No sir I did not now anything about that. That marriage would not be, for the reason that these plural marriages were not public.

845: The church did not know anything about this did it?
There wasn’t many that did know about it at all.

846: Was there a half dozen people know you were married to Joseph Smith?
So far as I know there was not. I don’t know how many knew it, but there was not many I believe that knew anything about it.

847: So far as you know, yourself, your sister, Joseph Smith and the man that married you were all that knew it?
Yes sir that was all, with the exception of Emma Smith, -she knew of it for she was there and saw it.

848: Was that all? I think so, – I don’t remember of any body else.
 

849: Was young Joseph Smith present?
No sir.

850: Well he was a good big boy at that time wasn’t he?
Yes sir, but he was quite young, and such young children did not now anything about these things.

851: Well he was twelve years old then wasn’t he?
Ye sir. I suppose so, but why should they tell him anything about it. It is not very likely that they would take children into their confidence in a thing of that ind that was being kept secret.

852: Well he was old enough to go to a marriage ceremony wasn’t he?
Yes sir, but he was not there.

853: He went to church with his father did not he?
Perhaps so.

854: well don’t you know that ye did? AI don’t remember whether he did or did not.
 

855: Did you ever see him go to church?
No sir, I don’t remember of ever seeing him go to church.

856: With is father I mean?
No sir, I don’t remember ever seeing him got to church at all.

857: Did you ever attend church with Joseph Smith as his wife?
I don’t know that i ever did, but I have been at the same church that they were at. I have been at the same church that they were at, but I don’t recollect that I ever went specially with them.

858: Joseph went with Emma didn’t he?
I suppose so.

859: He never went with you?
No sir he never went with me.

860: How many children were born to Joseph Smith there at Nauvoo, aside from those that were born to Emma his wife?
I don’t know anything about that.

861: Do you know of any?
No sir I don’t know of any

862: Were you re-baptized when you came out here?
Yes sir.

863: Were you baptized after you came here to the Valley?
Yes sir

864: What was that for?
What was it for?

865: Yes ma’am?
Well because we thought it was proper I suppose.

866: Was it not for the purpose, –
It did not do any body any hurt any way.

867: Was it not for the purpose of baptizing you into the new and everlasting covenant?
I don’t remember just what it was, – but it was I think for a renewal of our covenant.

868: Had you broken your covenants?
No sir.

869: Then why were you baptized again?
Well it did not hurt us any to be baptized again that I can see. We did not consider that it did us any particular harm, and we thought it might do us some good.

870: The bible teaches that you were not to return to your first works and do them over again?
Well I have nothing to do with the doctrines of the bible particularly.

871: You are not going back on the bible are you?
No sir.

872: Does your church out here go back on the bible?
No sir, not that I know anything about.

873: Well were you not baptized again after Brigham’s death on the accession of John Taylor to the Presidency?
I don’t think I was.

874: Have you not been baptized three time in all?, twice since you came here to Salt Lake and once before?
Well I don’t remember but what it was three times.

875: Were you not baptized in the reformation?
Perhaps I was.

876: There was a reformation here at one time, several years ago, was there not?
Yes sir, there was what was called a reformation.

877: Well that would make three times that you were baptized, if you were in that reformation, – once before you came here to Salt Lake, once after you came, and then again in the reformation?
Yes sir.

878: Have you not been taught here by President Young, and all the other authorities in the church here, that this revelation on polygamy, was a new covenant?
I never heard any particular teachings about it.

879: You have read it yourself?
Yes sir, I have read it in the Doctrine and Covenants that is accepted by the church.

880: And the church claims that it is the new covenant?
What?

881: That this revelation is a new covenant to the church?
Well I don’t know. I don’t know about that. I can’t discuss religion with you.

882: Well that is what you understand by it, is it not?
 

883: The church accepts it as a new covenant?
Yes sir, that the whole church has a new and everlasting covenant.

884: A new and everlasting covenant to the whole church?
Yes sir.

885: The whole revelation?
Yes sir.

886: Well then let me read section one hundred and thirty two, paragraph three and four on page four hundred and sixty four, – Therefore prepare they heart to receive and obey the instructions, which I am bout to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same; For behold I reveal unto you a new and everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant, and be permitted to enter into my glory.” Now have you been taught that, and so understand this revelation that it is the new and everlasting covenant?
Yes sir.

887: That is what you believe it is?
Yes sir.

888: And for the reason you were re-baptized when you first came there to Salt Lake, were you not?
Well can’t say, for I don’t know that it was for that.

889: Baptized into the new and everlasting covenant?
I don’t think that is what it meant, –

890: Well what do you think it meant?
I think it meant that new order of marriage.

891: Well that is what this says?
Yes sir.

892: And that is the reason you were baptized into it?
No sir.

893: It is not?
No sir.

894: Well what is it you were baptized into then?
Well it was not the plural order of marriage, for I was baptized; into that before. I was baptized like the rest of us because I felt that we needed it and it could not do us any harm, – we were baptized because we thought it was proper and meet that we should be baptized again after all our travels and trans-actions.

895: And that is the reason you were baptized when you first came here?
Yes sir.

896: And not into this new abd everlasting covenant?
I can’t say for sure that it was, but I don’t think it was. I understood it was on account of the travels that we had gone thrDugh with that we felt it would be better for us to be baptized again, – at any rate it would do us no harm.

897: Could you go through the endowments before you were baptized here?
No sir.

898: Well is that not the reason you were baptized here?
No sir, for I had my endowments in Nauvoo.

899: You had them here to did you not?
No sir.

900: Did you not take any endowments at all here?
Only for the dead, – I had the rest in Nauvoo.

901: You had your endowment for the dead here?
Yes sir.

902: Did you have any endowments for the dead in Nauvoo?
No sir.

903: You never heard of that did you in Nauvoo, – endowments for the dead?
Yes sir, I think so. They were baptized for the dead there I think.

904: They were baptized or had endowments for the dead, for Joseph Smiths death?
Well they were baptized for the dead, but I don’t know so much about the endowments.

905: Now tell me how you could be the wife of Joseph Smith, – the plural wife of Joseph Smith in May 1843, when on the 12th day of July 1843, “Prepare they heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you”?
Well that is all right. That don’t say that he had never been given any instructions before that.

906: Well he says on July 12th 1843 to prepare thyself to receive and obey the instructions which he was about to give, and then he goes on and give the instructions with reference to polygamy or the revelation regarding polygamy – which you regard as the revelation on polygamy. Now if that is the case, that this revelation was received on July 12th 1843, how could you be married to Joseph Smith in March or May 1843, for at time the revelation was not given if the date given here is correct?
Well I was married.

907: You were married?
Yes sir.

908: You were married to him as a plural wife?
Yes sir.

909: As was also your sister?
Yes sir.

910: Still the revelation under which you were married was not given for several months after the time you were married?
I know I was married to him, and I know he said he had a revelation at that time, and I believe he had it, or he wouldn’t have said he had it.

911: Were you married to him under the provisions of this polygamous revelation?
No sir I suppose not, for I knew nothing about it at that time. I don’t think it was written then, but I guess he had it.

912: But it says here that it was not given, – that it was given on July 12th 1843?
Well I don’t know anything about that.

913: Well do you know anything about it, – whether it was written or not at the time you were married to him?
I can’t say. He told me it was the word of the Lord, and that was sufficient for me.

914: Where did you go during the noon hour?
During what?

915: During the noon recess for dinner? Where did you go then?
I went up to the “Lion House”.

916: Is that President Woodruf’s residence?
No sir it is not. It is Brother Young’s residence, – where some of them live.

917: Where some of your family live?
No sir, – Brigham Young’s family, – some of them live there, and I went in because it is near by.

918: That is all.
 

919: Mrs Young you were shown this book, – the Times and Seasons, – and were asked if it was the Times and Seasons that was published in Nauvoo on October 1st 1942, – Now do you say, – did you see the paper that was published in Nauvoo on that morning?
I do not remember whether I did or did not.

920: Then you cannot say of your own knowledge, that this paper they have shown you, is the paper that was published there on that date?
No sir.

921: Can’t say anything about it, as to whether it is the paper or is not the paper?
No sir of course I can’t only I say I think it is. I have no doubt but that it is for it looks like it. It looks like the Times and Seasons, for I have some of them, and it looks like the ones I have.

922: Well did you read he paper on that morning?
No sir, I don’t remember that I did.

923: You don’t know that what is contained in this paper is the same as was contained in that paper of that issue?
No sir I don’t know anything about that.

924: Have you volume three of the Times and Seasons?
No sir.

925: What volumes have you?
I have volume five and volume six.

926: Well there was a volume one, two, three, four, five and six of the same paper was there not?
Yes sir.

927: You have not volume one, two, three and four of that publication?
No sir.

928: There was or are such volumes?
I suppose so.

929: And that was the regular church paper?
Yes sir it was the church paper.

930: And say this book, or bound volume entitled the Times and Seasons, looks just like the volymes you have at home?
Yes sir. It looks like it, – it is the same size and everything and looks just like mine, but it is bound different. That is all that I can see different.